People of Science with Jon Choy

Synopsis: In this episode, we speak with Jeremy, a 6^th year PhD student in Harvard’s Molecular, Cells and Organisms (MCO) PhD program. He discusses his non-traditional educational background as an undergraduate student to pioneering a new bioimaging method as a PhD student. Jeremy also details how interdisciplinary research and teaching have been integral parts of his research experience. As he nears the end of his program, he also recounts the challenges and successes during his thesis project while offering advice to aspiring scientists along the way.  

Two birds with one stone: Jeremy’s research aims to develop fluorescent labels that can be visualized with the electron beam commonly used to image biological specimens at nanoscale resolution (electron microscopy/ EM). His work focuses on improving correlative light-electron microscopy (CLEM), a technique that allows scientists to visualize protein locations by overlaying fluorescent signals onto corresponding EM images. However, this process is time-consuming, as proteins and cells are imaged separately. Jeremy’s approach aims to streamline this by using inorganic nanoparticles as protein tags, enabling simultaneous protein imaging and cellular visualization in one step (with the electron beam).

Research inspiration: Jeremy’s journey into research was shaped by his undergraduate research experience and an industry internship. During his undergraduate research, he was inspired by interactions with graduate students, leading him explore research further. In an industry internship, he admired the independence and responsibility of newly graduated PhDs, which motivated him to consider a PhD as a pathway to a fulfilling industry career.

Keeping research interesting: Now a 6th-year PhD student, Jeremy holds a keen interest for interdisciplinary research. Although his research background was primarily biology, his project has naturally branched into chemistry, physics, and engineering. For Jeremy, interdisciplinary research provides an opportunity to collaborate with others from various fields and to continue learning—keeping research fresh and exciting.

Pulling the rabbit out of the hat: Due to repeated experimental failure, Jeremy recalls nearly pivoting entirely to a new project early on in his PhD. However, he underscores that even when outcomes seem bleak, perseverance is imperative. In fact, pushing through difficult phases of research can lead to unexpected success and actually be empowering. This persistence, even when on the verge of pivoting, eventually led to several scientific breakthroughs during Jeremy’s project.

King of all skills: Jeremy emphasizes that time management was crucial in adapting to the early demands of graduate school, notably having to juggle classes with lab rotations. He highlights though that, despite the steep learning curve, effective time management can help acquire new skills and reveal new passions. For him, time management allowed him to manage the demands of research with the graduate teaching requirement with ease. This healthy balance allowed him to devote both endeavors the time and attention it requires, indirectly helping him realize to his love for teaching.

Why research? Jeremy’s favorite part of research is the scientific process itself, where its inherent unpredictability provides an exciting opportunity to exercise adaptability and problem-solving. He notes that experiments will often require a bit of improvisation as new experimental results may change your approach to certain question (i.e. experimental controls, groups, instrumentation etc). Another aspect of research Jeremy enjoys is teaching, a required component of most PhD programs. While some graduate students may view teaching as an obligation, Jeremy has found it to be not only a rewarding outlet to help others learn but one that can mitigate the sometimes “insulating” aspects of lab work.

Research, teaching, both? With six months left in his PhD, Jeremy is excited about the potential to fulfill his initial motivations for pursuing a PhD by getting involved with research within an industry setting. While Jeremy envisions himself eventually leading a team in industry, he is also drawn to a professorship—ideally fusing his interests in teaching with research by leading a smaller lab.

Off the beaten path: For those interested in research and graduate programs, Jeremy encourages you to stay committed to your research journey. While some might feel discouraged by other students who have gone to prestigious undergraduate universities or are a product of “parents preparing them for college admissions since they were 10 or 12”, Jeremy assures you that these factors are independent of attending high-ranking programs and conducting great research. Homeschooled by parents who devalued his educational pursuits, Jeremy’s path to research was far from conventional: He worked full-time while enrolled part-time in community college before transferring to a four-year university. Regardless, he was accepted into prestigious programs, including Harvard’s Molecular, Cellular and Organismal biology program and Princeton’s Molecular Biology program. I believe Jeremy’s journey serves as a comforting reminder that conventional educational paths and elite universities aren’t prerequisite to success in graduate programs.

“Hey Jeremy, start early!” If he could go back, Jeremy would tell his younger self to enroll full-time in college to fast-track his scientific journey. He wishes he occupied a larger proportion of his career pursuits towards science and regrets not acting on his interests in science early on. In his reflection, I think Jeremy also hints at a common dilemma many students face, which is that committing to a career path might feel scary. While it is important to feel confident in pursuing a career path, sometimes dedicating all your efforts and energy into a career path you are even slightly interested in will inevitably uncover your vocation.

Transcript

[00:00:00] Jon: Hi, everyone. Thank you for joining me for another episode of the People of Science podcast. I’m your host, Jon Choy, and my goal is to highlight the experiences of people in science because I believe that the experiences of other people can inspire deep reflection and be a powerful tool for clarifying our own convictions and aspirations.

Whether you are considering if a PhD is right for you or currently a graduate student, I hope that these conversations can be a helpful resource for you.

 For transcripts and summaries of this episode, I encourage you to check out my website@peopleofscience.blog. ‘

And this episode, we speak with Jeremy. a sixth year. PhD student in Harvard’s molecular cells and organisms PhD program. He discusses his non-traditional educational background, as an undergraduate student. to pioneering a new bio. imaging method as a PhD student. Jeremy also details how interdisciplinary research and teaching have been integral parts of his PhD experience. And as he nears the end of his program, he recounts the challenges and successes. During his thesis project while offering advices to aspiring scientists along the way.

[00:01:13] Jon: Well thank you for meeting with me do you mind just giving a short introduction and, you know, what’s your name, where you’re from?

[00:01:19] Jeremy: Absolutely. So, my name is Jeremy Conley. I’m originally from New Hampshire, and then my educational path got me down into the Boston area in Massachusetts, and I currently work finishing up my PhD on an electron microscopy method development project, and so the goal there is to really combine the greatest strength of fluorescence microscopy with the greatest strengths of electron microscopy applied to bioimaging.

So, we want to make Multicolor protein labels, like in fluorescence microscopy but that can be imaged directly in an electron microscope without sacrificing the resolution of electron microscopy, and without sacrificing the, you know, cell membrane, cell chromatin, ultra structure feature imaging in electron microscopy.

[00:02:08] Jon: And then what motivated you to pursue a PhD You’re in your sixth year right?

[00:02:14] Jeremy: So I worked with some really great grad students in undergrad while I was you know doing some part time research in the lab So it was first of all just a pleasant experience to interact with them And I thought I’d like to be with them one day and I also did some internships in industry pharmaceutical industry where I saw some younger scientists right after their PhD And I liked the I like the level of you know responsibility and independence in the research that they were given at these companies And so I thought that’s the kind of job I’d be interested in so let me get a degree that fits the kind of job I want

[00:02:53] Jon: And now you’re sort of I guess in your last year what’s the biggest thing you’ve learned ?

[00:02:58] Jeremy: Well about my own work preferences I’ve learned that I actually really never want to go back to working with a group of people that’s just in my background right in my field. So I really like working with physicists, engineers, chemists and so my biology background is you know pretty traditional pure biology. And so I’ve had a lot of fun doin some really interdisciplinary work and getting to know other people’s fields. And so I think that (A) I’m lucky that that’s a preference of mine that I’ve learned about. And (B) I think it’s just interface where a lot of cool science , so in the future I want to keep surrounding myself with people that keep making me learn new things

[00:03:40] Jon: And then what would you say was your biggest struggle

[00:03:43] Jeremy: I think the king of all skillss you need in grad school is time management because well if you are good enough at time management then you can make time to develop any other skills So it’s really like the ultimate skill you need So just you know early on in grad school trying to do well in classes and trying to do well in laboratory rotations at the same time That was quite a handful And then I think you know It’s really exciting once you transition into like full time doing research and you finish up the classes So my advice to people considering grad school is learn a lot of stuff in your classes that you can take but also consider P H D Programs that don’t make you take like 20 classes You know look at ones that make you take like 5 to 10 because really getting in That research experience is the main thing I think So yeah just time management juggling you know good experiments with good classroom work and then teaching later on I learned that I really love teaching but that also is a time sink right So juggling the educational aspect and the research was challenging but rewarding

[00:05:04] Jon: And then I guess I guess would that be sort of related to failure I mean I’m sure there was many failures along the way

[00:05:13] Jeremy: Oh absolutely So as I mentioned these multicolored protein labels we’re developing for electron microscopy just for a little bit of more information for people they can look it up if they want The process is called cathodoluminescence so many people are familiar with that Fluorescence you excite a fluorescent molecule with a laser and then it emits light in response So this is really the same process except that you’re exciting with the electron beam instead of a laser and so Developing these protein labels that are cathodal luminescent Was the main goal and you know nobody’s really demonstrated that you can do multicolor imaging and so they were At least there was at least one point Yeah where, Myself a postdoc I work with and my PI had the conversation of finishing up the immediate experiments and abandoning the project This was about two two and a half years ago because nothing was working And but it seems like whenever we get to that point we always break through experimentally And so that was a big struggle to you know push yourself to keep striving towards good results While knowing that there is a good chance that none of it will work and you’ll have to move you know shift your focus to a different project so luckily I didn’t have to do that but it was a it was definitely a reality that was on our minds for quite a while

 it’s really satisfying to know that we were close to close to abandoning the project and then we were able to like pull the rabbit out of the hat so to speak And yeah figure out figure out do some troubleshooting and get to the next step of the project

[00:06:56] Jon: Yeah and then you kind of alluded to it along the way like what’s your favorite part I guess of research

[00:07:02] Jeremy: So I Think of the thing I enjoy the most is just doing the lab work itself like thinking about okay how am I going to do this experiment Oh first of all sometimes you can’t even do that first You got to think what experiment should I do and sometimes it’s rather you know improvised And then what’s the best way to design it And then you know let’s do it What instrumentation do I need What are the controls I need I just really enjoy that process And and then an honorable mention is actually to teaching So I’ve just done three semesters of you know teaching assistant work and I I just really like helping people learn stuff It’s a really satisfying process and it’s a nice contrast to the sometimes more insulated experimental research work So it’s a good balance

[00:07:50] Jon: And then what’s next for you Jeremy perhaps can give us a one year, five year ten year plan

[00:07:56] Jeremy: so I have a funny like dual interest here which are kind of incompatible But so I really am interested in either continuing laboratory research as long as I can really for you know five years plus So just you know doing the experiments on a daily basis and you know perhaps supervising other people on my team but continuing to have that hands on work on So that’s probably most likely to happen in industry Because if I do a postdoc I’ll be promoted to P I Hopefully you know and then I’ll be just managing people and then the other interest is really full time teaching So I like as I said I like teaching a lot So I guess the great fusion of that would be to teach full time at a like maybe mostly undergraduate college and then have a small undergraduate lab So there’s a bit of work there and I can still work in the lab training them on protocols which would be fun and do a lot of teaching So I’m Trying to finish up my Ph D within the next say six months about and I’m applying to all sorts of stuff

[00:09:07] Jon: Finally, Jeremy, gives us some advice for those interested in pursuing a PhD.

[00:09:14] Jeremy: yes So a few things of differing relevance depending on the stage of their education your listeners are at But so for earlier on I just want to say Don’t don’t think that the only people that go and do this type of work like at this level of grad school and beyond don’t think that the only type of people that do that are people that you know whose parents were like preparing them for college admissions when they were like 10 12 years old So I was actually mostly homeschooled by parents who Really did not encourage college A college education did not encourage a very you know like intellectually stimulating career path and for various reasons And so I was homeschooled I had a really bad high school education with like I did algebra one that was as high as I went in math

And so then I just worked full time and went to community college part time And so that’s how I started my undergrad career Just worked hard tried to get good grades transferred to another school to get my bachelor’s and then applied to grad school and started So I think it’s fine to have a non traditional path and it can actually be kind of fulfilling to take a weird route because the important thing is just that you know you’re interested in this career So don’t be discouraged if you’re not like oh I graduated from some like private boarding school and I’m gonna go to an Ivy League for undergrads that’s fine You can still get get into a good Ph D program and do cool research

And then for getting into research yeah that’s really important I’d say do it as soon as you can So like in high school it’s hard for most people to get that opportunity I certainly didn’t have that but as soon as you get on your undergrad campus just do it Send some friendly emails to the professors at some labs that sound interesting you know just browse their websites and just be just be eager to learn you know you can compensate for your lack of experience with just being really available and ready to learn and excited about science

[00:11:19] Jon: Yeah I love that And then I guess last question what would be your advice to your younger self

[00:11:29] Jeremy: So I am I’m a bit older because of the reasons I told you about like part time college So I’m a bit older I guess I would say hey you know you’re interested in science you know you love that Like start start college a little bit earlier maybe try to do it full time instead of part time if possible Because I just wish I had started this scientific journey a little bit earlier just because it’s enjoyable and it would have been nice to occupy a larger proportion of my lifespan so far With a career in science So really that’s my my main regret is not just getting in a little bit sooner But i’m glad i’m here now that i’m here

[00:12:09] Jon: And it’s never too late right Yeah I mean here you are on the on the precipice of graduation So good luck with everything and I hope everything goes well. .